Game 1212: pickupsticks, Retro in 'Rescue from the Mines'

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• I'm not quite sure how this is going to work, but I recommend we make a gentleman's agreement to not kill any prisoners until they have escaped their cells?
  Posted by Retro 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• AFAIK, it shouldn't be possible for the hostage-takers to break into the cells, so they should be safe (unless I'm missing a trick).
  Posted by SteveSmith 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• Sorry to interupt, but how is it not possible Steve? I thought the only thing stopping them was not knowing which cells the prisoners are in? I could be wrong, but I do think that it's possible for the hostage-takers to blast their way into the cells and kill the prisoners.
  Posted by Deadlime 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• The mission brief says that the Laser Squad will need at least 3 grenades to complete the mission.... so I just assumed there was nothing stopping the Hostage takers from doing the same. I suppose a underhand tactic would be to bring in as many grenades as there are cells and systematically 'open' each one until they find a prisoner.
  Posted by Retro 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• This thought had crossed my mind. The guards would only need to find one prisoner to kill to invalidate the victory conditions for the LS. Opening the cells up would give their position away though, so it'd be a risky play with a big payoff.
  
  Not allowing the guards to carry explosives would solve the problem, although that could make things a bit too unbalanced perhaps?
  
  I don't think we should have a gentleman's agreement in this match... I'm never a gentleman! (and it would be useful to see whether the guards opening up the cells would be a workable plan)
  I haven't equipped either game yet, so fine to play with a gentleman's agreement or not - your choice Retro. :)
  Posted by pickupsticks 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• I'm good for you to test out the theory if you wish, it is only a practice game :-) Both mine are equipped so I've already given 'standard' equipment. Don't let me know what you decide to do, just to see how easy/difficult it is to counter once you know what the hostage takers are upto.
  Posted by Retro 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• Oops, I'm wrong. For some reason I thought the hostage takers weren't able to equip with any explosives, precisely for this reason, but I've not implemented that (though I'm tempted to).
  Posted by SteveSmith 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• It kind of seems unfair to restrict the defenders like that, but I suppose the attackers have to spend at least 36 creds have to be spent on grenades that are not used for combat. Might balance it out.
  
  The only other way around it is to create a new type of explosive, let's say a 'cutting charge' that can be dropped next to the doors and will only blow open said doors. You would then have to make those doors resistant to grenades (you could call these 'security doors') and set the Walls to strong or indestructible (not sure what would be best).
  
  Lol I'm full of ideas Steve, I've got enough to keep you busy for the rest of your natural life :-D
  Posted by Retro 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• How about adjusting the map slightly to make more cells. That would be easily done (I done mind doing it), making it harder for the hostage-takers to find the hostages.
  
  It's a bit unrealistic how the rescue team know where the prisoners are, but the hostage-takers who imprisoned them don't, but what the heck, it's a fun mission. :)
  Posted by Deadlime 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• The only problem I have with this, is that it's still possible for the defenders to win via a 'dirty' tactic that is determined purely by luck. They might still find a prisoner in the very first cell they opened.
  
  Hmmm I've just had a thought. What if these prisoners are worth just as much to the defenders as they are to the rescuers? If one dies the game is considered a draw, as both sides lose. Just a thought.
  Posted by Retro 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• Actually thinking about it, I think changing the victory conditions like that would be too open to abuse.
  Posted by Retro 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• If they are important political prisoners that the guards need to keep alive, could lead to the LS using them as human shields on the way out. That could be fun.
  Maybe make it "if you kill a prisoner you lose" and have victory conditions for LS be get all the prisoners to the exit along with at least one surviving LS member (to stop the prisoners just walking out!)
  Posted by pickupsticks 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• A "human shield" aspect sounds like a great idea; I've had a similar idea going round my head for about a year now, though mine was something like "escorting a hostage from one side to another". I couldn't work out how to make it work though.
  
  I'd obviously like to keep the original Rescue from the Mines mission, but if anybody wants to create a "version 2" with more cells and other changes, feel free. The map editor is included with the client. :)
  Posted by SteveSmith 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• Good point Steve - we should try to keep an original Laser Squad version of Rescue from the Mines, but there are some good ideas floating around for creating another version.
  
  On the subject of keeping it close to the original, Steve, how come the rescuers can only deploy and escape on the top left side? On the original LS mission there was a deployment/escape are at the top right too.
  Posted by Deadlime 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• That's probably just my poor memory. I think I originally got the deployment area for the hostage takers wrong as well. I'll have a look at Laser Squad and fix it.
  Posted by SteveSmith 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• Right, one of the prisoners is dead. That means it's all over? Or that means it's revenge time?
  Posted by pickupsticks 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• I'm more than happy to carry on if you are. Although I'm surprised the game has not ended with the death of the prisoner. If you want to concede that's fine too :-)
  Posted by Retro 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• Let's carry on. There's probably not much more fight in this one anyway, but I'll go out with a bang.
  Posted by pickupsticks 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• *GULP*
  Posted by Retro 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• I have to say that was a very enjoyable game... the other one is too. I think this map is lots of fun :-)
  
  Did you have some ammunition issues on there?
  
  Also the game ended when I killed the second prisoner.... perhaps you only need to rescue 2?
  Posted by Retro 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• Actually looking back at the playback, the game ended when I killed one of the rescuers.... hmmm very bizarre.
  Posted by Retro 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• Great game :)
  Don't ask me about ammunition, it's a sore topic.
  Gave me a chance to pull off a "throw the knife - catch the knife - stab the guy" move though, which worked out ok.
  
  I think this map will be even more fun with two dep zones for the attackers... everyone is spread so thin with just one, there will be more scope for sneaking when the LS could be coming from both sides.
  Posted by pickupsticks 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• VP count is at 100 - maybe you just killed enough people?
  Posted by pickupsticks 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• Shame, though, as I was just about to finish you off :p
  Posted by pickupsticks 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• I was getting a little bit worried toward the end there to be honest :-D
  Posted by Retro 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• Agreed, the second deployment and escape zone is needed, if not just to stop it from becoming a straight fight between the 2 forces.
  
  That knife trick really did make me laugh :-D
  Posted by Retro 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• I added a second deployment zone on Friday, so it will be there if you play this mission again. :)
  Posted by SteveSmith 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• Ah that's great news. We had some victory issues Steve in both games. I don't know if you have picked up on it yet. I'll make a post on the forums about it when I get chance :-)
  Posted by Retro 14 years ago [Login to reply]



• Yeah, I've seen that. I need to tweak some missions: games where one side can escape sometimes cause the game to get confused when all of one side is killed.
  Posted by SteveSmith 14 years ago [Login to reply]

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