Game 365: SteveSmith, nyarr in The Assassins

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• Hope you enjoyed that game. I spent the previous turn positioning my men as I knew you were hiding in that small room. You still managed to pick one of them off before I dealth the killer shot! :)
  Posted by SteveSmith 15 years ago [Login to reply]



• Wow I didn't even seen your units...
  What for is that "wait" command and why opportunity fire dont work at all ? I though that I must press 'wait' to have opportunity fire but it just ate my AP's :(... This map seems to be imbalanced for regnix team. How can you hide regnix when all walls are destructible and grenades/rockets are so effective.
  
  Thing that annoyed me the most is that each turn i was forced to restart client and listen for that music for X - time.
  suggestions:
  - add camera like in original Laser squad (top view)
  - add some undestructible walls
  - add weapon models and some fire/expolsion animations
  - add replay feature so we can analyze game more
  - add client ability to save camera/sound effects/music settings and to play next turns without restarting it.
  - add ability to swap position with other friendly troops (that could cost AP'a)
  - add scanner in game (in browser is good though)
  
  The game have big potential you can make it really huge.
  
  I enjoyed it maybe we play next time more balanced scenario :)
  Posted by nyarr 15 years ago [Login to reply]



• It sounds like the confusion over the Wait command caused your problems - it actually cancels your opp fire for that unit for that turn. I might rename it as it is a bit ambigious.
  
  Anyway, I'm not sure the mission is balanced too far in favour of the Laser Squad - according to the stats page, Regnix' side has won 63% of the time. :) I'm ready for another mission if you want, or the same mission but opposite sides?
  Posted by SteveSmith 15 years ago [Login to reply]



• Just to answer your other points:-
  
  * Restarting the client: Usually there's not such a fast turnaround between turns. It's usually more like one turn a day or something, so it's not usually a problem.
  * On the website, you can select Games -> My Finished Games and see exactly what happened during the game in the Details link.
  * Indestructable walls: Some missions have these. If you click on the name of a mission, it will tell you whether they have indestructable walls or not.
  
  I'll add your other comments to my todo list. I'm not sure what you mean about the "camera like the original LS", or the "ability to swap positions" though? Can you explain?
  Posted by SteveSmith 15 years ago [Login to reply]



• ..About camera i just suggested you to implement classic top down view perspective (whith angle little off) to have view just like in classic Laser Squad 1. It will add more clarity to game and will cause less confusions with camera movement (ability to move camera is cool but not always for everyone so some standard samera views would be cool.
  About restarting the client... it's problem beacouse if u want play fast game (like we played today) it can be annoying especially with that music :) After your turn game CLIENT should inform me (even with some messagebox with big OK button)that it is my turn... I'am just requesting for option for people who want play fast game without restarting client :)
  
  about swaping positions I meant to change units positions. Imagine that you have to pass long corridor with your Unit and you have 50 AP but you cannot pass it beacouse your other unit with 8 AP is blocking corridor.
  With swap ability you can exchange units position with AP penalty for both sides(it should work only with current player units)
  ok i will draw it for you :
  1 - unit1
  2 - unit2
  ************************* before swap unit 1 AP:50 unit 2 AP:8
  12
  *************************
  ************************* after swap unit 1 AP:42 unit 2 AP:4
  21
  *************************
  for unit2 it could cost about 50% AP required to move left,back or whatever (depends on exact position of unit2) but its your game you can tweak it like you want :)
  now unit1 can go further without killing teammate... :)
  
  Next wave of Suggestions :
  - make better graphics maybe some animations, weather effects (hire 3d artist)
  - seperate
  Posted by nyarr 15 years ago [Login to reply]



• music and sound effects from 'M' key to "M"- music on/off and "N"- SFX on/off
  - add save options as default function (eg. there are very few players that want to: listen that music ingame ,setting camera and other setting after every client restart ...)
  - change music to some ambient atmosferic noises/music (laser squad remix is good for game intro but not really for in game music)
  
  My dream was to create modern massive online strategy game (with some RPG/adventure elements similar to travian/ogame) with laser squad/rebelstar tactical combat elements. But now I am lacking programming skills ,patience and time so maybe you could make it possible somehow...
  You did great job integrating java game with browser btw.
  
  Maybe, we play again but not today beacouse I must work.
  Posted by nyarr 15 years ago [Login to reply]



• I can agree with nyarr about one thing, I'm no fan of the 'WAIT' button. I've almost pressed it by accident a couple of times, and I agree that the wording could be confusing for new starter.
  
  As for most of his other gripes, I think most are not such a big deal.
  
  First of all the Assassins is a perfectly balanced mission. I think you just need a little more practice and to explore more tactical options.
  
  Restarting the client - is no big issue either as 99 times out of 100 there is a big delay between turns, and most people would check the scanner/map details between turns anyway.
  
  In game scanner - is pointless in my opinion. I'd rather see Steve spend his time elsewhere. Like I said, people should be checking the scanner/map on the client before each turn anyway so you should have a good idea of what's going on and where everything is.
  
  Fixed camera - I'll admit when I first started playing I didn't much care for the free camera method either. After 2 or 3 games I forgot all about it though. A fixed camera might be a nice 'extra' option - but I doubt it's worthy of being top of the 'to-do list'. Also I suspect a lot of players might find it too 'old fashioned'.
  
  Music - personally I like it. In fact it was me who suggested it. I doubt there will ever be ingame music which 'everyone' likes. I think there is a button to switch it off, but I've never found it necessary.
  
  Weapon models - they'd probably look nice, but would add absolutely nothing to the game in
  Posted by Deadlime 15 years ago [Login to reply]



• (continued) terms of playing it. Where would they even be displayed? Probably the only place they could be at the moment would be when buying them. Again, hardly worthy of being near the top of the to do list.
  
  Unit's swapping positions - I've thought about this myself and have never been 100% happy with any of the methods in which it can be done. I suppose units not being able to pass each other in narrow corridors can be a bit annoying (especially if you don't know about it). Personally I think the simplest and probably most workable method would be to allow the unit being controlled to pass through other friendly units at a cost of slightly more action points than a normal move. Maybe the same as walking into a closed door. I don't think I like the idea of the units actually 'swapping' positions. If one guy blocking the way has no action points left, it would be frustrating for a guy with 50+ no to be able to pass by (through) him. I think the original Laser Squad's method of passing through rather than 'swapping' positions would be the best method - only with an additional cost to the move.
  
  Better graphics/weather effects/animations - please note that Steve is 1 guy doing this in his own spare time and out of his own pocket (I'm guessing there is a cost to running the domain). As proven he's a great programmer but not a graphics artist. If any members who want to contribute their skills to making better graphics (or music for that matter) then I'm sure he would be happy to take a look at what you have to offer.
  
  I hope this doesn't come across as me ripping you nyarr - I'm just adding my own opinions in response to yours. Play a few more games and see if your opinions remain the same.
  
  Good luck. :)
  Posted by Deadlime 15 years ago [Login to reply]



• I'm with Deadlime on the Assassins mission. I spent a lot of time playing that particular mission, trying out a few different tactics (check my loss record, if you don't believe me). I believe that mission is pretty balanced between people with equivalent skill.
  
  I'm not a fan of the music, but if it really bothered me, I'd get the source from Steve, get the change to be persistent in some sort of .rc file, and submit it to him to roll into the mainlin. Ditto with restarting. Neither of them is that big an effort to me.
  
  Weapon models are fluff. So is nicer art. Eye candy is great, but it's not what keeps me playing a game. Of course, since this is an open source project, you can always volunteer your own art, or go out and get capable friends to make it for you?
  
  I view the narrow corridors as a function of terrain, and an intentional limit.
  
  Like Deadlime says, Nyarr, Steve is one guy. I'm sure he'd be happy with your help, but you come across to me as ripping into Steve. That might not have been your intention, but that's how I grok it.
  Posted by kael 15 years ago [Login to reply]



• Just to throw in my tuppence to answer various points made:-
  
  * I'm going to drop the Wait command. It's easy enough to waste APs if you really don't want to opp fire (which I think is quite rare), and having it is more confusing to new players.
  
  * I add almost all suggestions to my todo list, but to be honest, it's unlikely that a lot of them will ever get done since there's always something more important or interesting to add. It also all depends how easy it is (like locking the camera which I'm adding now) compared to how much it will add to the game.
  
  * A lot of features depend on talents I don't have, like 3D models and images of weapons. I'm always on the lookout for new media to use, but I'm at the mercy of what I can find or what people create for me. All offers welcome!
  
  * For those who are curious, I run the server at home so it doesn't cost me anything (apart from electricity). The only cost I have is the domain name, which thankfully isn't much.
  
  Also, I'm not sure Nyarr is ripping into me especially, he's just getting straight to the point. I think a lot gets lost in transalation and/or terse messages and it's sometimes easy to read a tone in a message that's not really there. That's what smileys were invented for. I think we're all friends here at the end of the day. :)
  Posted by SteveSmith 15 years ago [Login to reply]



• I want to sorry about my language. Iam not a native speaker. I Just wanted to make some minor suggestions and my intention was to help Stephen (who is certainly very positive and smart person) to make His game better and more interesting. And I wish him All the Best with next version. Current is good though.
  Posted by nyarr 15 years ago [Login to reply]



• Sorry, Nyarr, I have to apologize.
  
  Reading over your post the first time, I missed the smileys, and obviously read a nasty tone into it that wasn't there. I guess I got overly defensive of Steve's hard work.
  
  Again, I'm sorry for overreacting.
  Posted by kael 15 years ago [Login to reply]



• Sorry about that--the wait command. I haven't used it once since you implemented it. :-/
  
  Just how much source code is there for the client side part of this project?
  Posted by kael 15 years ago [Login to reply]



• The client side source code, not including the 3D engine code (JMonkeyEngine) comes to about 380K.
  Posted by SteveSmith 15 years ago [Login to reply]

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